Lucie Averill: Slowing Down to See More Deeply
In this episode of the SheClicks Women in Photography Podcast, Angela Nicholson is joined by Lucie Averill, a Cornish landscape photographer whose work captures the quiet beauty of the coast through stillness, space and subtle light. Having spent many years as a primary school teacher, Lucie made the leap into full-time photography, gradually building a fulfilling creative career rooted in observing the world slowly and mindfully.
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Episode Transcript
Lucie Averill
I think it takes that pressure off if I know that, oh, it doesn't matter. I don't have to make an image today, but I can stand and enjoy it and just watch. And I think by watching and looking, it feeds other ideas, doesn't it? You know that another time you go down there something that you hadn't even realised that you'd noticed, a bit of rock or a certain stretch of beach, you know what the sun's doing at that time of year. All of these things are going in, even if you're not aware of it at the time. And somehow, when the conditions all come together, you can pull all those ideas out, because you've done your groundwork without knowing it. It's like doing your research.
Angela Nicholson
Welcome to the SheClicks Women in Photography Podcast. I'm Angela Nicholson, and I'm the founder of SheClicks, which is a community for female photographers. In these podcasts, I talk with women in the photographic industry to hear about their experiences, what drives them, and how they got to where they are now.
In this episode, we hear from Lucie Averell. Lucie is a landscape photographer based in Cornwall, where she's inspired by the ever changing light, wild weather and quiet coastal scenes near her home. After many years as a primary school teacher, Lucie made the leap to focus fully on her photography, creating calm, reflective images that capture a sense of space, solitude and stillness. Hi, Lucie, thank you for joining me today on the SheClicks Women in Photography Podcast. It's really lovely to have the opportunity to chat with you.
Lucie Averill
Thank you. It's great to meet you too for the first time.
Angela Nicholson
Oh, it's lovely. Thank you. Now I understand that you originally worked as a primary school teacher. Were you always interested in photography?
Lucie Averill
Not always. I mean, I've always had a camera, but it was just point and shoot holiday photographs and film. I didn't really know what I was doing, but it was when I had my first digital camera that I became quite intrigued, actually, because you could see the image straight away, and from there on, I guess that was about 2003 it. It gradually built into a passion. Obviously, I was working full time, so it was just in my spare time, but it became more and more important to me as the years went on and as as I sort of tried to develop my skills. And yeah, I mean, it's just gone in a way that I hadn't expected, really. So I haven't always been interested, but it's just become a real passion.
Angela Nicholson
It's interesting that the transition to digital technology really kind of, I don't know if inspired you, is that quite the right word? Triggered you to take more interest in photography?
Lucie Averill
I think so, because it was the immediacy of it. I mean, I know some people say how exciting it is. They send a film roll off, and some weeks later, they get it back. I didn't find it frustrating. I didn't really think about it, but it was just the fact that I could see what I'd taken and I could use what I could see on screen to work out what I might do next time. And I began to realise that actually that was the important part for me that I could monitor it quite closely, what I, you know, not having to wait. And I guess, you know, it's a time when you could see it on the computer. You could see it big, see all the flaws, and, yeah, it just, it did trigger me much more so than film.
Angela Nicholson
Yeah, that's interesting, because I started with film photography as well. And I used to, really, I shot a lot of transparency film. When you put it on the on a light box, it's like looking at a stained glass window, and it's beautiful. But I always felt a certain amount of anxiety around film, because it wasn't a cheap medium, you know, or it still isn't. And so there was a cost associated with experimenting or bracketing, whereas actually, as you say you can look at your results in the viewfinder or on the back of the camera and make changes and then try again or do all sorts of different variations.
Lucie Averill
Absolutely. And my brother is a film photographer, although he was the one that got me into digital and I could see the hours and the expense, I knew I would never, ever have the time to have a darkroom myself, and I guess it put me off, and I know that sending it off to a lab, you don't always get the results you want. And so I think that's that's why I had more control over it. I could, I could look at it, I could develop it, I could use my own digital dark room as and when I could without having to worry about expense. As you say, it doesn't matter if you take 100 pictures and you only end up with one, but I used to find the same it was. It was just too expensive, really, to have film.
Angela Nicholson
So how did you make the change to a career in photography?
Lucie Averill
Well, it was a really gradual process. It's not something that I ever really intended. I'd, I'd been teaching for a long, long time. Loved it, but it was, it was quite stressful, and once my children had grown up, and I thought, actually, now it's my time. So I gave up the teaching job. Didn't really have anything to go to, but I just, I was lucky enough, I was able to have the time to develop, pardon the pun, to actually, you know, hone my skills. And when I first gave up work, I was, I was photographing artists' work for them. My husband's a painter, and I'd always photographed his work so that he could use them for catalogues and what have you. And that's what I was doing first of all, and it was great. I had a couple of galleries that I'd shoot for friends, friends of friends, and it was, it was a really good learning curve, but it wasn't really what I wanted to do all the time as as my own skills. You know, as I furthered my own skills, I realised I wanted to be outside. I wanted to be able to print my own work, and I had, I was lucky enough to go on a printing course with Adrian Beasley, and that kind of transformed the way I printed completely in just one weekend. And so that's what I concentrated on, developing my own work and and my own printing skills. And then I happened to be out walking just in the in the town of Marazion, usually have a set route that we go around. Went a different way, and happened to see this little gallery with a note in the window saying they were looking for a 2D artist to, you know, to be part of the cooperative. And I thought, oh, no, I'm not. I'm not up to that. I can't do that. And I had chatted it over with family and friends. They said, No, give it a go. Give it a go. So it was a case of feel the fear and do it anyway. And I, I did apply for it, and I got, I got the position. And then, of course, I just started in the February before we had all the lockdowns, which wasn't great, but it was so nice, because I enjoy being part of a little group. It's not just you on show, it's other people as well. So it and then it kind of snowballed from there, really, another friend asked me if I put work in her gallery, and I did, I still have work there, and then I started to have exhibitions, sometimes by myself, sometimes in a group. And as I say, it was totally unintentional. It was just bit of luck being in the right place at the right time and and being open to new challenges really well.
Angela Nicholson
That's really interesting. I think there's quite a lot to unpack there. Your husband is an artist,
Lucie Averill
Yes,
Angela Nicholson
and you've got several friends who are artists. Do you think that being immersed in that kind of world helped you take the step?
Lucie Averill
I would say absolutely it did. Because I know, you know some people, they say that with their out, with their families, their families. Their families get a bit cross if they've got their cameras. And, you know, they're not terribly understanding. I'm really lucky if we go anywhere, you know, husband, my son or my daughter, it was, oh, you know, you might like that, Mum, you go over there and do that. We'll go off and have a coffee, or we'll go off and have a wander. And they just don't mind. They're very, very supportive. And as you say, having lots of artist friends, my husband as well. I've seen it from the other side. I've never thought it would be something that I'd be part of that creative scene, but there is that understanding there and that support. And if I if I need to, if I've made some work and I'm not sure about it, I know I can talk to my friends, my husband and I get, I get a fair appraisal, a fair criticism, and we have this joke, you know, my husband says, Oh, do you want marks out of 10? It was just a joke. But, you know, if I get an eight or a nine, sometimes a 10, you know, it's quite good, but it's just just that sort of feeling comfortable that I can be creative and I've got the support I've, you know, we've got books around us. We've got pictures around us. All my friends are very creative. And I guess I've, yeah, I've absorbed more than I really thought. My husband laughs, because if we're out walking and I'm talking about the light or this and the other he says, having conversations in the last few years that we would never have had initially, because I didn't see things in the same way. So it has helped me very much.
Angela Nicholson
Yeah, that is really interesting, and I think it's it's very easy to underestimate the impact of somebody sort of not being too concerned about how long you're going to take when you're you're out with your camera, because it yes, okay, so it might only be a fraction of a second that you, you know, you make the exposure, but actually, that's just the starting point. And then you sort of see different angles, and you want to explore something, and it you need to be sucked into the scene, don't you, and sometimes you can do that before you press the shutter release, but other times you need to warm up to it, you know, take a few shots, give it a go,
Speaker 1
Absolutely and, you know, I think that's possibly why I like photographing by myself, is because I might stand in the same place for 20 minutes, half an hour, if I want to be there an hour, sometimes I can, and I'm not worried that somebody else. He's fed up or bored, as I say, my husband to go off and grab a coffee, or he'll sit and he'll just think about his own work. He's just, he's able to just switch like that, whereas, if I'm out with people who aren't photographers, they do get impatient. You, you know, because it is that looking and waiting and, yeah, is that the right light? Yeah, it might change. That cloud might move over, and I can lose hours just just watching and waiting, really.
Lucie Averill
And not everybody is able to put up with that.
Angela Nicholson
Especially, I think if they don't know what you're looking for is, oh, I'm waiting for the light. What do you mean? You know?
Lucie Averill
I know? Well, it's up there.
Angela Nicholson
And it's not just necessarily the sun coming out from behind a cloud. It's still that cloud goes over somewhere else as well, and all sorts of things.
Lucie Averill
And also, yes, you know, as you say, a few seconds to click the shutter, but it's all the work that goes into it, the thought behind it, you know, waiting for the cloud, waiting for maybe waiting for people to clear out of the scene, or for the water to be doing something and, yeah, it is something that you can't rush, not if you're going to take anything other than a snapshot, really.
Angela Nicholson
Yeah, Did there come a point that you remember where you started to refer to yourself as a photographer, or as a professional photographer?
Lucie Averill
It took a long time. Again. I can remember somebody saying to you know, what do you do? And I sort of said, I'm a I was a teacher. I'm now a photographer. And I felt, yes, I felt as if I shouldn't be saying that. And it took a long, long while. And even now, people say, you know, what do you do? Oh, I'm a photographer. I used to be a teacher. It's almost as if I can't quite give one up and believe that I'm the other. It has taken a long while.
Angela Nicholson
Did you ever, I mean, it sounds like it was a very organic process, but did you ever, or have you at any point started to kind of plan your career progression or think about what your aims are?
Lucie Averill
When I joined the gallery down the road as part of the cooperative, and I realised from hearing people chat to me about my work when they came in, I thought, well, actually, it would be nice to exhibit, because the gallery is little, so maybe have a bigger space to exhibit. And that's, I would say, was possibly the only real planning I've had. I don't sort of think to myself, Oh, I'm going to try and get into this gallery or that gallery that doesn't really cross my mind. I'm quite happy for it to be organic, because all the while I'm enjoying it. I feel it's probably taking me down the path I want to go down, whereas if I set myself so many goals that and then fail to achieve them, it'll just give me a sense of failure. So I'm happy to go with the flow, but I am doing what I want to do. So I don't know if that makes sense.
Angela Nicholson
Yeah.
Lucie Averill
I just don't want huge plans. I mean, for example, I have worked out with a friend that we would like to maybe exhibit more together. So if you like, that is a plan, but it's not a hard plan. And it might be that we end up with one exhibition. We might end up with two, we don't know, but I just give myself gentle targets and and hope that I, you know, can work my way towards them.
Angela Nicholson
So you have a stated aim when you'll look out for opportunities to achieve that, but not necessarily, say and it's got to be done by October the ninth. Blah, blah, blah.
Lucie Averill
No, no. I think for so many years I had, you know, in my teaching, there were so many deadlines, so many things you had to do. I don't want to put myself under that pressure, really, because I, you know, I don't need to be under that pressure. I'm happy doing what I'm doing. And, yeah, definitely not.
Angela Nicholson
I think that's something that comes with a bit of experience, isn't it? Just self knowledge, knowing what you like, knowing that if you do certain things, that will make you happy. And that's, that's good.
Lucie Averill
Absolutely, because, you know, I see younger photographers coming through, brilliant photographers. They're obviously very career driven. They need to make, they need to make a really good living from what they're doing, and it's hard. And they have that drive that perhaps, as you get a little bit older and, you know, finish one career, go into another, you can be a bit easier on yourself, and I'm still achieving what I want to achieve. So that suits me, really.
Angela Nicholson
Yeah.
Lucie Averill
Perhaps if I was a bit younger, maybe I'd have more of the drive and more of the ambition. I don't know. I'm not a very competitive person, actually, so I'm quite happy just sort of going along at the level that I like to set challenges, but not to make myself feel too stressed about it.
Angela Nicholson
Okay. Now, you mentioned you went on a printing course that really changed how you print overnight. And I was just wondering if you could tell us a bit more about that.
Lucie Averill
Yes, I. Because a lot of the work I do is about reflections and clouds and the sea. I don't know why, but I'd got into my head that, you know, I always use a lustre paper, and that's how it looked in print. And when I went on the course with Adrian, he made me really think about the paper I was using and how it would affect the the actual outcome of the of the image. And he also talked about how you have to almost process your image because of the paper and of the profile, and what have you something that I hadn't really considered before, and how everything has to be calibrated. And he suggested to me that I use a matt paper. And kind of inwardly, I will admit my eyes were rolling, thinking, oh no, you know, how can I matte paper? I'm sure it's not going to work, not going to look good. But actually, as soon as it came out of the printer, I could see the difference. There was a richness to it. And I just from that point, I really, really fell in love with printing. I like printing for the sake of printing, just seeing it come out. Yeah, I just love it. But it was the whole idea of where everything has to be calibrated so it all comes together and it looks on paper as you want it to look not Oh dear. Well, the printer has given me that. I'll just have to accept that. And I just, I think it did definitely improve my printing from from the first day that I've been on the course, really, and hopefully building on it all the time. Because I think to see your work printed makes a huge difference. To just seeing it on the computer, it's there is something very special about it. Even if you only make little, small prints that you put in a photograph album. It is important because it's something with computers that lots of us have lost. I mean, family photographs stop at a certain point when I wasn't sending films off anymore, and I realise that that's probably lots of people have just got their photographs on a phone or something. So print them off. You know, it is good to have them.
Angela Nicholson
Yeah, it's a very different experience. I think flipping through a photograph album or a photography a photo book that you've made, it's a really pleasurable thing.
Lucie Averill
It is.
Angela Nicholson
Do you always now photograph with the intention of making a print?
Lucie Averill
Usually, yes, I mean, I do have, obviously, I have got photographs that I haven't printed off, but it might just be that I'm not ready to print it yet. But I think actually, the way I process my images, even for social media, I probably, I probably got the print in my mind because I know I process and my images are light, because that's how I tend to print. So yes, in the back of my mind, it's always, would this make a good print? Might not be Now, it might be if I've got another it might be with a body of work that it matches with. I might not print it straight away, and I keep photographs quite a long time before I process them. It's not often that I process straight away, and I like looking back and thinking, actually, that would make a really nice print. Or no, that one I thought was good. No, I wouldn't do anything with that now, so it's always at the back of my mind about making a print.
Angela Nicholson
Is that delay because of the practicalities of life, or is it because you like to give them some time so you come back to them fresh?
Lucie Averill
No, I It's I like to come back to them fresh, because I can remember hearing Rachel Talibart saying the same thing that you know you you, you get all excited when you've taken a photograph and you think it's great, and actually, over time, you might change your mind. So there, there's definitely that. And I think sometimes my tastes might change, or, as I said, I might be actually working towards a body of work that I hadn't considered at the time, that I'd made the image, and so it didn't seem to fit whereas So, for example, I made an image. Well, I printed an image, very, fairly recently, quite an abstract one, a boat one where the boy was reflected in the water and was all broken up, quite fractured. And I realised that I actually had other images that I'd made a couple of years before that would be part of a really good little project. And so it didn't, you know, those photographs didn't call out to me at the time, but I I knew I had them, and I knew that it would fit the body of work. So your tastes change, what you're trying to work towards changes. So, you know, it's good to wait. Sometimes. I don't always wait two years, though.
Angela Nicholson
So would it be fair to say that your primary income source from photography is print sales?
Lucie Averill
Ah, yes, yes, I think it is. Yeah, because I've I'm now in the two galleries and running exhibitions as well. I I do make quite a lot of print sales. So that's good.
Angela Nicholson
Great. You mentioned you're part of a cooperative. I think that's the Marazian Gallery, is it?
Lucie Averill
That's right, yes, yeah.
That's run by the artists. How much of a commitment is that in terms of, you know, because obviously somebody's got to be there when the when the gallery is open, and there's all sorts of admin and things.
We're open seven days a week, so that is a huge commitment. But because there are usually nine of us we're with, we're looking for another member at the moment. But so it means that every once, every nine days, I have to be in there, which actually isn't too bad. And also, everyone's pretty good. If you want to go away, or if you've got something on, you just swap your shifts. And everyone's really helpful. Meeting maybe once every four to six weeks, it's not onerous at all. And I, I really enjoy being part of a team where you're working together to promote each other's work. Really, I think, you know, going back to the teaching days, I was always enjoyed. I always enjoyed being part of a team. I work well like that, and it's good. I think it gives you confidence as well, actually working amongst other creatives and having those chats when people come into the gallery, I would never imagined I would have done that, but I do enjoy it very much.
Angela Nicholson
Is it a mixture of artists? You know, are they all using different medium?
Lucie Averill
Yeah. I mean, in Marazion Gallery, we've got ceramicists, mixed media, artist, painter. We've got glass jewellery, so there is a whole, whole mix of it in my gallery that I'm in in Porthleven. I'm with another painter. So that's that's different again, but, yeah, it's good fun. Really good fun.
Angela Nicholson
Which gallery is it in Porthleven?
Lucie Averill
It's Steelworks. Which is in the shipyard, tiny little space. I've only got, you know, a little corner, but actually it does really well for me. And people come in, the conversations you have are really nice, because, you know, if you if your prints are just left on the computer, or it's just social media, you don't really know what people think. And whilst I don't make images just for what people think it it's quite nice when I think, oh, you know, somebody likes that enough to have it on their wall, and they want to know how it was made, or, you know, what paper it's on. And it is. I really enjoy being in both the galleries.
Angela Nicholson
Great. That sounds really lovely. I've been to Porthleven many times. It's a beautiful place, and I've been into several of the galleries and things there.
Lucie Averill
It's really nice.
Angela Nicholson
I meant to ask you, do you always now use the same paper for your prints? Or do you have a you know, is there a range that you switch between?
Lucie Averill
I tend to stick to two papers that are actually very, very similar. I use the Fotospeed, natural, soft, textured, bright white because it suits my work. The brightness of it suits my work. And I, or I use the Hahnemuhle photo rag again, the bright white so I, when I print on either of them, I can process the same it's just that some people say, Oh, I'd like that on the other Hahnemuhle, because they've heard of that one. But I use, I use them both equally, but I don't. I have got a more of a lustre. I think it's, I can't remember the name of it, but I just, I don't like it on my work. We know, with my work, doesn't look as good on that. I don't think perhaps if I did more black and white, it would suit that. But for me, at the moment, it is definitely the cotton rag that it works best for.
Angela Nicholson
Okay, do you do your own framing as well, or do you get someone else to do that?
Lucie Averill
I have my frames made, but I have them untreated because I don't know whether I want a lime waxed one or if I want a black one, depending on the work. And also, I have some clients who always want a black frame, or some who always want a lime wax frame. So although I buy the frames made, I do end up framing it myself. And what, you know, having to stain the frames or wax the frames, which does take a lot of time, I do get help. My husband's very good at that, but at the moment, that's the way I'm working, just because otherwise, if I, if I send it off to have it framed, it makes it even more expensive, and it is. It is a consideration. Yeah, if you want to sell your work, it's got to be affordable.
Angela Nicholson
That's true. Thinking about your photography, how you how do you decide on any particular day what you're going to photograph. Does it come down to, is it always the weather? Is it sometimes your mood, or you just suddenly think, Oh, I haven't been to wherever for a while. I'm going to go there.
Lucie Averill
It can be a mix, really, because, you know, if it's a bright blue sky day, I'm probably not going to go down to the beach, because I like the moody clouds, and that wouldn't work. However, if it's a blue sky day, it might be a good time to go to the harbour. Sometimes it depends on time as well. You know, if I if I'm due in the gallery all day, if sunset or sunrise is early or late, then I can go down to the beach afterwards. But. Yeah, yeah, it just depends. Really, I would say that weather is probably the one that I would look at most of all, because I do like a moody cloud, and it's not worth going out if it's just going to be blue sky. I wouldn't get the images I'm looking for. But then I do go to the harbour.
Angela Nicholson
Yeah, it's nice to have the options for different weather conditions.
Lucie Averill
I know, I know I'm hugely lucky living here. We are miles away from anywhere, but I know to be able to keep going back to the same location. It doesn't matter if the camera doesn't actually come out of the bag, because I know that I can get I can go the next day, or, you know, a couple of days time. I know that when I go somewhere new, it takes me a while to get my eye in, and I sense sometimes that desperation of I've only got three days. I need to make the most of where I am and I and obviously people are like that. If they come to Cornwall, they've only got a week or whatever, and they don't have the right weather. So yeah, I would say I am very, very lucky living here, but I do go back to similar places a lot, because I think you get to know, you get your eye in, don't you? You know exactly what you what, not exactly what you're going to get, because it's always changing, but you have an idea of what you can make an image of depending on the conditions, the tide, which part of the beach, that sort of thing. Yeah, you get an idea of the basic shapes and forms. But actually, as you say that the sea and the sky are infinitely variable, so good for the soul actually, just just watching them, I think, I think it takes that pressure off if I know that, oh, it doesn't matter. I don't have to make an image today, but I can stand and enjoy it and just watch. And I think by by watching and looking, it feeds other ideas, doesn't it? You know that another time you go down there something that you hadn't even realised, that you'd noticed a bit of rock or a certain stretch of beach, you know what the sun's doing at that time of year. All of these things are going in, even if you're not aware of it at the time. And somehow, when the conditions all come together, you can pull all those ideas out, because you've done your groundwork without knowing it. It's like doing your research, yeah, of knowing how to make an image,.
Angela Nicholson
It's interesting, because if you were looking at it coldly, perhaps as a business person, then you might say, Okay, well, you're in a popular tourist area, there's a constant supply of potential clients. You've got these images. Just keep printing them. But there's also a desire as an artist, as a photographer, to go out and capture new images and create different prints.
Lucie Averill
Absolutely, when I first joined the gallery down the road in Marazion, I assumed that people would only want to buy photographs of St Michael's Mount, of which I do have lots. But actually, what was really gratifying was that it was my other work that people seem to enjoy, because perhaps they hadn't seen some of it before. It was a little bit different, maybe. And I I really like that. Because although I do still photographs at Michael's Mount, I don't very often, because it is one of the most photographed places in the country, isn't it? So for me to be able to do the photography I want to do is really important. I don't want somebody to say, I want you to photograph this, or you can't be in the gallery. Fortunately, that's not the case. And what's really interesting is that some of my more abstract boat reflection work is some of my most popular work for sales, which I'm really thrilled about and really surprised about, but it just allows me to do what I want to do and not have to, you know, just produce work of a certain kind gives you that confidence.
Angela Nicholson
Do you ever run workshops?
Lucie Averill
I have run workshops in the past, and I know lots of people assume, Oh, you used to be a teacher. That's probably what you're going to do. But I don't now, and I don't advertise. I'm not saying I won't ever run them, but I think having spent so many years where I had to, you know, meet targets, get people, get children through certain exams and SATs and what have you, I've decided that I don't want to put myself under pressure too, you know, if somebody's paying money, you want to get them some shots that they're going to be really happy with. And I think there are other people doing it better than I'm doing it. Put it that way, so I'm not I'm not intending to run them at the moment, and I did enjoy the ones I did run, but I just want to do my own work now really.
Angela Nicholson
Fair enough. I think that's fine. Now, you mentioned some. Sunrise and Sunset earlier, and it's bit of a burning issue in the podcast. Do you have a preference for photographing at sunrise or sunset?
Lucie Averill
Sunrise is good. I like the colours at sunrise. They seem to be gentler and it's quieter, bearing in mind that I live in one of the most touristy areas, so sunrise is a good time to go out. Having said that, sunset, also on some of the beaches down here, the light, that last bit of light, is quite incredible. Again, I'm usually, often the only one down there, so I'm split. I'm absolutely split. And depending on the time of year, because it starts to get a bit brutal, doesn't it, this time of going out for sunrise.
Angela Nicholson
Yeah.
Lucie Averill
So I am split, but I suppose in the winter months, Sunrise is definitely the best.
Angela Nicholson
Yeah. Like you say, if you're looking at the dawn time and it says six o'clock, oh, that's not too bad. But then you think, oh, but I've got to get out. I've got to get up. So that starts to get a bit brutal. And when it's, I think it was getting light and about 4:30 this morning, so, you know, that's that's getting a bit serious.
Lucie Averill
It is, yeah, I mean, I I just have to know my limitations really, if I'm, if I'm going to be up it's three in the morning, I'm not going to be fit for much if I've got to be in the gallery the next day or and I know that in the winter months, it's easier to do that, and the light actually is even more exquisite, so I'm not too bothered about it. But a sunset, you know, this time of year is still getting quite late, isn't it? And in the height of the summer, I could be down on the beach still at half-past 10, 11, o'clock at night, because we just get that last bit of light. So it can be a very long day if you've done a sunrise as well, so that you'd manage it.
Angela Nicholson
That's true. Yeah. What about the tide? Do you have a preference for an incoming or outgoing tide?
Lucie Averill
I prefer an outgoing tide just because obviously you get that clear sand, and that's really a lot of my landscape when my coastal work is about the reflections in the wet sand. So if you've got, like a clean slate as it's going out, also for safety wise, for safety reasons, it's easier on an outgoing tide. Although I did, I don't know if you've heard, but I did have a little incident some years ago now, where it was an outgoing tide, and I thought, you know, everything was okay, because the water line was a long way down, and I was reaching in my bag for a filter, and this rogue wave came up and completely knocked me off my feet.
Angela Nicholson
Oh, no!
Lucie Averill
Camera. Camera on the tripod. Yeah. It all went underwater. We all went swimming. So I It has made me very, very wary,
Angela Nicholson
Yeah.
Lucie Averill
and I do prefer an outgoing tide, and knowing my escape routes as well is always important, just in case, yeah.
Angela Nicholson
Yeah. That's a good point, because, you know, you tend to think of it being a steady progression out. But sometimes those waves can you can surprise you.
Lucie Averill
I do, and every seventh or 10th wave, isn't it that it's meant to be a Rogue One, but this one just came hurtling up the beach and just made you realise how careful you have to be. So safety is always the important thing now.
Yes, very good point. Do you have any advice for anyone who's thinking about turning their photography into a business?
I would say, photograph what you really love, because I think the passion will come through in the images if you're just photographing because you think they might sell. I'm not sure that that works. I think probably you might have to have another source of income as well when you're getting going, because it is difficult. And if you're just relying on internet sales, that's, I would imagine that's difficult, unless you're really, really well established. You know, I do have a few internet sales, but I have more sales from people seeing it in the flesh. So again, try and find venues where you can maybe have your work on show, because if people can see the quality of it, they are more likely to order a print, maybe. And the other thing is, as I started out photographing artists' works, maybe find another way that you can use your photography that might earn you the bread and butter, whilst you can pursue the more creative side of it as well. I think with any self employment, you probably have to have lots of things bubbling away, don't you? Rather than just having you don't have all your eggs in one basket, I think.
Angela Nicholson
Yeah, good tip. Right, so I think that's a great time to go to Six from SheClicks. I've got 10 questions from SheClickers, and I'd love you to answer six questions please by picking numbers from one to 10. So if you could let me have your first number please.
Lucie Averill
Number one.
Angela Nicholson
Okay, so where are your favourite UK coastal locations outside of Cornwall. That was from several people.
Lucie Averill
Well, I was a student in Brighton for five years before we moved to Cornwall, and I really love going back to that, that part of the coast. As a student, I didn't have a car, so I didn't get round to lots of the other areas I would really like to explore more. I do know Brighton, but you know places like West Wittering. I've started to look at the Kent coastline a little bit more, just because my sister in law lives up there. But I, you know, I don't get to spend lots and lots of time there, but I do love that part of the coast as well. It's different to here, also Scotland. I mean, again, it's so far away from here. Don't get there very often, but the Scottish coast, the West Coast, is just beautiful.
Angela Nicholson
Yeah. Okay, so can I have your second number please?
Lucie Averill
Number three.
Angela Nicholson
Number three. Do you go out with a vision of what you want to create, or do you wait and see what presents itself? And a couple of people asked that, Paula and Marie-Ange.
Lucie Averill
I think when I first started making work, I would probably have an idea of what I hoped to photograph, possibly because I might have been researching work or seen in magazines, or I'd like to, you know, I'd like to shoot something like that. Now I find I tend to respond. I want to respond more to what I find when I'm there. I mean, obviously, to some extent, you know, if I'm looking at a high tide, I might photograph in in the harbour, so that'll be different. Or if I'm got an outgoing tide, and I'm down on the beach, I'm looking for certain sorts of reflections. But I do like to respond to what's around me. And that's why I spend so long standing around looking and waiting for that sort of inspiration see what's happening around me. Because quite often, you know, you might go down there, you get the shot that you think, okay, that that I might have planned, but it's when I'm packing up, or when as I'm walking away because I'm going back to my car that something else catches my eye, and I need to be ready to respond to that. And I think I have become better at that. It's the same way you go somewhere new. You have to be able to respond because you don't know, you don't know the area as well. You don't know what you're going to get. So being able to, you know, we talk about the wrong weather. There isn't really a wrong weather. It's just what you have to photograph in that weather, isn't it? You have to be able to adapt to it. And I think I have become more adaptable as as I've gone on.
Angela Nicholson
If someone asks you whether you would like to join them on a beach you've not explored, or they join you on a beach you know very well, which would you prefer to go with?
Lucie Averill
I think I'd probably like to go somewhere new, actually, with somebody who knows it. Because, I mean, it's lovely being in Cornwall, but it is a long way from anywhere, and so, you know, I don't get to explore other beaches in quite as much depth, and that would be really nice to see somebody else's. And I mean, equally, if somebody was was down here, you know, I'm happy to show them sort of places, but I tend to have just a few places that I go to. So somebody else's knowledge is always really, really good to have, isn't it? Share their experiences?
Angela Nicholson
Yeah. So can I have your third number please?
Lucie Averill
Number seven.
Angela Nicholson
Number seven. How do you take care of your kit at the coast? So Several people asked that, and you've mentioned a disaster that you had. I mean, obviously, hopefully avoid that kind of thing.
Lucie Averill
How do I take care of my kit? Well, I always keep my bag on my back. So I always I have a bag that slides across and opens at the front, and never put my bag down, which is probably why my back's so bad, because again, you can get that rogue wave or anything can happen really you could, so I don't put it down. The other thing is, I do keep lots of cloths in my bag, and I have a little rain cover, you know, just a plastic thing, but it works really well. If needed. I I have, I use filters. I still use my original Lee Filters set. So I have got something on front, on the front of the lens, and I do clean them when I come back, because obviously the salt can, well, if it dries, it can scratch them, plus you get horrible marks on them. My own camera and the tripod, I do try and wash off, because again, salt is not great in tripod legs. Tripods don't last me, probably, as long as they last my brother, who doesn't live by the coast, but you kind of have to take that really. I mean, I do, I stand in the water with my tripod so it gets into the joints, and I do try and rinse it off. But yes, you know it can't. It's not going to last for. Ever, but I am very careful. I have, I always have a camera strap on. If I'm changing a lens, I turn away from, you know, I try not to change lenses on the beach, but sometimes you have to. And I have my bag open, I try and put the lens in and turn away from any the wind. And do it quickly. And I do as much as I can really clean everything off when I come back.
Do you? Are you really fastidious with that?
I usually am, yeah, fairly good.
Angela Nicholson
I think that's the key word I usually am.
Lucie Averill
Yeah.
Angela Nicholson
That is one of those things. I thought I really should... I'll just put that there for a moment. But it does depend on the weather a bit.
Lucie Averill
Yeah. And I must admit, I have there are times when I've come back and I've that, you know, my filters, they're not salty, but they've if it's been a bit of humidity, a bit streaky, and I think, oh yeah, I'll do that when I get back and I forget, and I go out the next time, like, Oh no, I didn't clean them, and they're really grubby. And, you know, you can suddenly end up with a misty shot, and it's not Misty at all. It's just your filter absolutely filthy.
Angela Nicholson
Yeah, it was noticeable, sometimes you're at the coast, you know, just for a walk or something, and when you get home, you really feel the need to wash your hands, because they feel kind of grimy.
Lucie Averill
They do, yeah.
Angela Nicholson
And basically, you've got that sea salt film.
Lucie Averill
It's that salt, it just gets into everything, doesn't it? Yeah.
Angela Nicholson
Yeah, it does, it does. Right, can I have your fourth number please?
Lucie Averill
Number eight.
Angela Nicholson
How much editing do you do, and what's your approach? Does it vary by subject?
Lucie Averill
I well, I edit, usually through Lightroom. And I, I suppose it I don't do a huge amount. I would prefer to be out taking the photographs and sitting in front of the computer. So I use a straight shot. I don't do the multiple exposures, and I take it into Lightroom, and I do, you know, sort of the whites and the blacks. And if I feel it needs a bit of texture or whatever, I might do a little bit of localise with the brush and the masks. But I don't do an overall huge edit. And everything I do, I do in very, very small increments and see if it makes any difference. Sometimes I'll whack it right up so you can see the effect, and then I'll bring it down as far as I possibly can. But it does tend to be very localised. I might sometimes it's the white balance. I might change as well. Particularly, I'm using a Fuji camera more at the moment because it's just lighter to take around. And I don't always like the way Fuji the white balance, just don't always like it, so I might have to tweak that, because I used to use, I have a Canon camera, and I do love the Canon colours, and I do find it's I can achieve that just by slightly tweaking the white balance as well, making it bluer. But I try not to do a lot, and obviously any dust spots, of which there are probably quite a few.
Angela Nicholson
What, what is your maximum number of dust spots that you'll clone out before you actually clean your sensor?
Lucie Averill
I haven't, you know, I haven't cleaned the sensor on my Fuji.
Angela Nicholson
Oh, really?
Lucie Averill
I'm ashamed to admit that. No, I know. I'm putting it off. It's not so many dust spots I get. I get the hot pixels.
Angela Nicholson
Oh.
Lucie Averill
Where I think the long exposures can sometimes do that, can't they? When you get...
Angela Nicholson
Right, yeah.
Lucie Averill
so I have to use the visualise spots thing so that I can actually see where they are, because sometimes they're so tiny, but they would show up in a print. You'd think that you'd got a little bit of the ink that dropped off or something, but it's, it's not the hot pixels.
Angela Nicholson
Yeah, okay, all right. Could I have your penultimate number please?
Lucie Averill
Number nine?
Ah, well, it follows nicely on, because what is your go-to camera and lens combination? And a few people asked that.
As I say at the moment, I'm using my the Fuji X-T5. And depending if I'm down on the beach shooting sort of a cloudscape, or whatever it probably be my the 16-55 and if I'm at the harbour, it's probably the 70-300 those are, I don't actually, I do have a wide angle lens, but it's, it's a, it's a prime lens, which I find really hard not being brought up on film cameras. My brother laughs at me. I don't really have a wide angle other than this fixed lens now. So it is, it is the 16-55 is about the widest I go at the moment.
Angela Nicholson
Okay, and you mentioned you you've got a Canon camera. Do you still use that?
Lucie Averill
I do use it, but I took it out a few weeks ago, and it's a bit like when you change cars, you know, when you stick the windscreen wipers on, when you meant to put the indicators on, and normally the muscle memory is, I can use those cameras in the dark, which you need to, but I've, I need to get back out. With a Canon, because I've forgotten where things are. But as I say, for walking around the because it's the old, you know, it's the 5D SR, which is really heavy to walk about. So if I'm going out for the day, I do tend to take the Fuji. It's just better on my back, really.
Angela Nicholson
Yeah. Okay, so you would use the Canon for what if you're you've got a specific shot in mind, maybe you're going to use a tripod?
Lucie Averill
Yeah, well, I use a tripod 99.9% of the time. Anyway, okay, and I, I use the Canon if I'm going down to to do cloudscapes. I find I do like it for that. But my Fuji because, of course, it gives me the extra reach as well, because it's a crop sensor. So for the harbour shots, that's quite helpful. But and the Canon I use if I'm photographing like my husband's work or artists work, I don't know why I just, I just find the colours easier to get right.
Angela Nicholson
Okay, could I have your final number please?
Lucie Averill
Number 10.
Angela Nicholson
This is an interesting one. Is your current business and lifestyle, what you visualised back when you first became a professional photographer. And I know it was more of a transition, but there was a point at which you kind of realised that you're a photographer, and has, or has it been more of a natural development? That question's from Philippa.
Lucie Averill
Yeah. I mean, it has been more of a natural development. But I guess now I'm in a position to think, Okay, I think this works well for me, so I'd like to do more of that, like, you know, having the exhibitions or collaborations with other artists that works well for me. So it's not anything I envisage, as I said before, when I first gave up the teaching job, but I think now I am able to work out what might work well and what might be the next path for me.
Angela Nicholson
Great. Well, Lucie, thank you so much for answering all those questions. It's been really wonderful chatting with you.
Lucie Averill
Thank you very much for having me. I've really enjoyed it.
Angela Nicholson
Great. You're welcome. Bye, bye.
Lucie Averill
Bye, bye.
Angela Nicholson
Thanks for listening to this episode of the SheClicks Women in Photography Podcast. I hope you enjoyed it special thanks to everyone who sent in a question. You'll find links to Lucie's website and social media channels in the show notes. I'll be back with another episode soon. So please subscribe to the show on your favourite podcast platform and tell all your friends and followers about it. You'll also find SheClicks on Facebook X Instagram and YouTube if you search for sheclicksnet. So until next time, enjoy your photography.
